masonite?
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| Selecting soundboard for classical http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8218 |
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| Author: | peterm [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:25 pm ] |
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I'm about to start my first classical build with a beautifull set of Macassar Ebony I got from Steve from Colonial at the lovely swap meet! Well, knowing close to nothing about classical guitar building properties (except playing) I need help selecting a soundboard to complement the Macassar Ebony... the customer wants a clean (no bear claw or figured) top with a warm tone that can deliver a good volume..... Any ideas? Thanks |
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| Author: | MSpencer [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:53 pm ] |
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Engleman Spruce would be my choice, Ed Dicks over at AC Tonewoods has some really nice AAA or the HAA is really nice as well. Mike White Oak, Texas |
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| Author: | Andy Zimmerman [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:38 pm ] |
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The european spruces would also be a good choice. quite traditional. On th otherhand I would love to hear one with some of Shane's Lutz spruce. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:15 pm ] |
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Shane's Lutz for sure Peter, it's really got volume and warmth! |
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| Author: | Michael McBroom [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:29 am ] |
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Well, I'll offer another view. Western redcedar is a good choice for both warmth and volume, and is an excellent tonewood for classicals. In fact, the warmth characteristic of WRC is what typically sets it apart from the spruces. I like WRC a lot for classicals, but many if not most classical purists prefer and insist upon spruce -- especially European. Best, Michael |
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| Author: | peterm [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:03 am ] |
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Thanks guys! Michael, i was considering WRC.... not knowing much about classical construction, I don't think the tops will react the same way as they would under the steel string tension...thus my asking. For classical guitars, how would the different tops sound? and what would be their unique characteristics? thanks again |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:07 am ] |
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Masonite? |
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| Author: | peterm [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:17 am ] |
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masonite?
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| Author: | Michael McBroom [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:49 am ] |
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[QUOTE=peterm] Michael, i was considering WRC.... not knowing much about classical construction, I don't think the tops will react the same way as they would under the steel string tension...thus my asking. For classical guitars, how would the different tops sound? and what would be their unique characteristics? [/QUOTE] I find it often difficult to describe differences such as those that top woods provide, I think mostly because other factors, such as the quality of the top wood itself (stiffness, tap tone, etc.), the bracing pattern, the way the braces are shaped, and the back/side woods used -- all these and more have an effect on the overall sound. All other things being equal, however, I guess I'd say that -- to me -- a well-built classical with a WRC top has bright, clear trebles and warm basses. Well-built spruce topped classicals also have bright, clear trebles, but the basses tend to be brassier, with a satisfying growl to them. Spruce tops also seem to provide a bit better separation, especially in the basses, but this feature is also a function of body depth, I've found (the shallower the body, the better the separation -- but only to a point). A cedar-topped classical will open up much faster than a spruce-topped one will, and well made cedar-topped classicals are known for having great volume. Best, Michael |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:02 am ] |
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Whatever species you use, I'd look for low density and reasonable stiffness. The main problem in building a good classical is tha there just is not much high end sound in the strings, and you can't afford to waste any of it if you're to get a good balance with the bass. High end tone depends on acceleration: you've got to be able to get that top moving in a hurry. Given limited horsepower, the only way to get good accelleration is to keep the weight down. It turns out that the Young's modulus of wood pretty well tracks the density on average: a piece of spruce that's twice as dense is likely to have a Young's modulus that's twice as high. Because the _stiffness_ of a top varies directly with the Young's modulus and _cube_ of the thickeness, the lower density top will be lighter at a given stiffness, but thicker. Thus, the lower density woods, like cedar and Englemann, are usually good choices for classical tops. Euro is generally somwewhere in the middle of the density numbers, although it is often stiff for it's density, while Red and Sitka are often too dense. These are average numbers, and you will need to go with the wood you have on hand, which could be very far from average. I'd note that cedar dents much more easily than most spruces, and htat might be a consideration. |
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| Author: | peterm [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:27 am ] |
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Alan and Michael, thank you so much for your complex answers! it definately covered the questions I had in mind.... All my research and your answers led me to beleive that Englemman Spruce would be a great choice for this guitar. I would debate between Western Red Cedar and the Englemman Spruce but given the facts I thing the Englemman would look better with the Macassar Ebony... I think we have a winner! Thanks a lot! 
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:32 am ] |
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What about the Masonite? Al, have you run tests on that? Huh?!
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| Author: | RCoates [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:55 pm ] |
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What? No votes for Carpathian Spruce? |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:27 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=RCoates] What? No votes for Carpathian Spruce?[/QUOTE] We just lump it in with all the other Euro spruce over here. It's just Picea abies from a different place. Colin |
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| Author: | Michael McBroom [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:46 am ] |
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[QUOTE=peterm]I would debate between Western Red Cedar and the Englemman Spruce but given the facts I thing the Englemman would look better with the Macassar Ebony... I think we have a winner![/QUOTE] Peter, I haven't built a classical yet with an Engelmann top, but I own one. It's a nice guitar and all, but . . . If I were in your shoes, I would use a set of Shane's lutz spruce. It's great stuff -- sounds a lot like Euro spruce to my ear, but it's better quality wood than most of the Euro I see nowadays. Best, Michael |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:21 am ] |
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Just go with a lite in weight Lutz top and do not leave your fans (if your using fans) braces more than 5mm high under the bridge! then taper them to their ends!! Listen to your top ! Flex it -it's NOT a steel string so go easy! I'll leave the scientific stuff to those in the know! The # 1 and # 2 braces (the transverse) should be left 17mm tall-then lock them into the linings and put side brackets on them so they can't be easily made loose! Use your senses for any fine tuning! mike Collins |
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| Author: | Shawn [ Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:15 pm ] |
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Spruce will be a better color match for Maccassar Ebony than WRC or Redwood. I have built several maccassar classicals over the years with Euro or Englemann Spruce and the color of the top matches well with the lighter stripes of the Macassar. |
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| Author: | bob J [ Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:42 am ] |
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Don, Stop It, you're killing me |
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| Author: | bob J [ Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:44 am ] |
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German Bear Claw |
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| Author: | peterm [ Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:26 am ] |
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Wow, i guess I gotta reconsider the Englemman...
I have built an OM with Lutz and it sure sounds nice... maybe thats the ticket.... |
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